Link 17 Nov

Half Your Paycheck To The Government In 2013

The president is convinced Americans need to pay more in taxes. Here’s what  he said yesterday.

“I think everybody out there understood that was an important debate and the  majority of voters agreed with me. By the way, more voters agreed with me on  this issue than voted for me! So we’ve got a clear majority of the American  people who recognize if we’re gonna be serious about deficit reduction we gotta  do it in a balanced way.”

But let me tell you, come January 1, you’re probably not going to be happy  with the amount of taxes you’re paying. That’s because it’s not just Federal  taxes that you pay.

A middle class taxpayer pays 25% percent of their income in Federal Income  Tax. Sounds, ok?

Then there is the Federal Social Security and Medicare payroll tax of 13.3%.  You pick up 5.65% while you’re employer pays 7.65%. Add them up and that’s 38.3%  of middle class family incomes going to Uncle Sam. But we aren’t done, not by a  long shot.

According to the Tax Foundation, the average state’s income tax rate on the  middle class is 4.82%. Of course, some states have it and some don’t, but we’re  taking an average here.

Now the total: 43.12% of middle class income to taxes.

Oh, and I almost forgot, unless congress makes a move, Federal Income taxes  go to 28% for middle income folks next year as the Bush tax cuts expire.

Neither party has said they want that to happen, but in Washington, well, you  never know.

Also the payroll tax for those folks will go to 15.3% from 13.3%percent.

Did I mention state, property, corporate, and excise taxes? No?

All told, next year, total taxes will go to almost 50% for the middle class;  the very group that the president says he wants to protect. That means 50 cents  out of every dollar earned has to go to the government. Half of everything will  go to an entity that didn’t earn that money, and shouldn’t be entitled to all  that dough.

Unbelievable. You think most Americans agree that’s fair?

I don’t think so.

Related Videos:

Ron  Paul: Don’t Expect All Solutions on Jan.1

Schiff:  Tax Hikes Need to Be Bigger

Regulations,  Regulations and More Regulations

Rand  Paul: Spending Cuts Are Fiction

The  Politics of the Fiscal Cliff

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JT123

 
from JT1235pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

So many folks really don’t understand how things work. The costs of  these things are always passed down to you. If your employer is paying 7.35% on  your behalf, it means that you aren’t getting that money into your pocket. All  these taxes on the ‘wealthy’ are going to break the back of the average  American. So you say, ‘then the government needs to mandate that they don’t pass  down the costs.’ Ok, they can do that, and then the company will stop making its  product or service, then nobody has a job (see Hostess). More regulation is the  problem, not the solution. If you want to see complete despair and loss of your  liberty, keep going down this path and encourage the government to just take  over everything. Its been done before, if failed every time – resulting in  unspeakable horrors and tragedy.  Its so simple that it amazes people that  understand this that anyone could possibly see it otherwise. The culmination of  factual evidence shows that the current path we are on will destroy this  country.

 
 
 
 
Nola Legalmvp

 
from Nola Legalmvp5pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

@JT123 Sorry but you just went against the very  argument of the free market that conservatives pretend to love so much. The free  market won’t allow companies to just pass the cost to their workers because  workers would go to work for a company that doesn’t do such a thing or employers  will entice good workers to come work for them by not doing what you said and by  giving them higher pay. So that cancels out your argument. Also, free market  would prevent the same from happening to the detriment of consumers. A business  is always trying to bring in more customers and if lowering costs does just  that, then some company will do just that, also canceling out your  argument. And lastly, history shows that everything you just said is  completely incorrect. Middle class incomes were always directly correlated with  productivity until Reagan implemented his trickle down and union busting  policies and since then the two lines have been going in opposite directions.  Also, this country had its greatest economies during times of much higher taxes  than today. In fact, the best economic times were when taxes on the rich were at  90%. Clinton saw one of the best economic times in history with higher taxes.  So, I understand what you are trying to convey and sometimes what seems logical  just isn’t the case and on this point, what you wrote is just not the  case.

 
 
 
 
humby

 
from humby5pts

 
 

6 hours  ago

 

@Nola  Legalmvp @JT123 the  employees can’t just go down the street to another company, the other companies  do the exact same thing or are not hiring….don’t forget there are 23 million  people who would love to have your job…the end story is Americans from the top  on down to the middle class are simply taxed WAY to much….i do not need the  government, their protection, nor their handouts, just leave me the heeelll  alone and quit stealing 42% of my hard earned money (that is what my final pay  ins will look like this year after property tax, school tax, income tax, ss tax,  med tax)  would be better sitting at home, spitting out kids with the wife,  drawing every welfare imaginable than losing half of every dollar i earn because  i went to college and have a good job.

 
 
 
 
 
ceanf1

 
from ceanf15pts

 
 

5 hours  ago

 

@Nola  Legalmvp @JT123 

here is the problem with your argument Nola… while true, that in a  free  market, an employee unsatisfied with the percentage of various  taxes an  employer offers to pay could go to another place of employment, we do not have a  free market, and there are government regulations in  place that says all  companies pay a certain percentage of an employee’s  tax burden. the simple fact  is, were a company not paying that 7.53% to  the government, it would likely be  in an employee’s paycheck in some  form. so that 7.53% is not a tax on the  business. it is a tax on the  employee. how you can fail to grasp that concept  is beyond me.

that is not the only problem with your post Nola. if you think the WWII  period consisted the ‘greatest economic times’ the US has ever had, then  rationing and scarcity must be right up your alley. anybody with half a brain  knows the greatest period of economic growth in the country was  the late 90s  into early 2000s, when the top tax bracket was 36%.

as for your precious unions unions, well, why don’t you go ahead and  ask  the 18,000 hostess employees looking for a job how their union has  helped  out with their middle class incomes…

 
 
 
 
 

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james777et

 
from james777et5pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

This is all so sad. I finally realized that the people that should be reading  these comments don’t. I meet a person the other day that voted for a local  school levy and than complains that she does not have enough money to make ends  meet…she had no idea that the new school levy would cause her taxes to go  up…its almost criminal to allow these people to even vote. There are other  issues that are important besides gay rights, and abortion…its funny that this  fiscal cliff was not in the news the last 6 months like it is  now…..Hum….I wonder why?  Were all on a rollie-coaster ride and some of  us will die before its over with, so hang on and enjoy the ride as long as you  can.

 
 
 
 
 

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Tom Paul

 
from Tom Paul5pts

 
 

10 hours  ago

 

Ahem, I know it´s hard to imagine where all of these problems came from. The  fiscal cliff was designed by Republicans because they thought that Barack Obama  wouldn´t be elected. So the plan didn´t work when Obama won. The fiscal cliff is  sadly something of the Republicans and thereby our own doing.  What percent  small business owners earn over 250.000 per year? Who is John Galt?

 
 
 
 
ahale.fla

 
from ahale.fla5pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

@Tom  Paul  A lot, tom.  an awful lot of business owners earn  more than that.  The fiscal cliff is not somehting you can pin on one party  tom.  It’s an easy scapegoat, but it’s not accurate.  Funny you quote  Atlas Shrugged, it was precisely this tax, regulation, and control of economics  by politicians and gov that got us here, not corporate greed, that has always  existed, but politicians control over the economy has grown, so has our  misery.  Read the book, maybe you’ll understand it better.

 
 
 
 
 

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WPC Guy

 
from WPC Guy5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@Tom  Paul Is this something you know or just something you say?  The  real question isn’t how many business owner make over $250K, the real question  is how many people are employed by business owners that make over $250K?   We business owners will downsize and manage with whatever the gov’t leaves  us–we have no choice– and the first place we will cut is labor–especially  those workers that voted for the tax increases that hurt us.  Unlike gov’t,  our pie is only so big…

 
 
 
 
 
santiagokid

 
from santiagokid5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@Tom  Paul According to the IRS, 3.2 million filers earn more than  200K AGI.  That is 1.2%.  That group is responsible for nearly 50% of  the overall tax payments.  People making over 70K are in fact the top 10%  of earners.

It is not mathematically possible to generate enough revenue from such a tiny  portion of the population.

And by the way, the vast majority of small businesses fall into that  group.

 
 
 
 
 
ohiodale

 
from ohiodale5pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

The fiscal cliff is due to the government spending too much money which  is due to entitlment spending.  All the entitlment programs were 100%  created by the liberals, with the newest being Obamacare.  So the fiscal  cliff in Greece and Spain is just our imagination, it really doesn’t  exist?  The $250K is for a family.  You could have a small business  making $180K and a spouse making $100K and fall into this tax increase. Two  college graduates that are in their 50s could be earning $250 per year.  We  should increase taxes across the board to see how the 98% like having their  taxes increased.  Its easy to talk about tax increases and job cuts when  they do not involve you.

 
 
 
 
 

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WPC Guy

 
from WPC Guy5pts

 
 

10 hours  ago

 

As a self-employed small business owner (no benefits package) with one  part-time employee, I send about $4000 monthly to the feds, and another  $12,000-$15,000 again at the end of the year.  This alone represents nearly  50% of my income.  We have a household income of right at “noneya”   and are very much middle class where we live, although you describe us as  “wealthy” and not paying our fair share.  We are comfortable, but not  wealthy.  I drive a 1992 truck and a 1990 motorcycle–paid for.  Wife  and I each work 60-80 hours weekly.  How “fortunate” is that?  We  struggle to keep up with our work, not our bills.  I’d like to hire some  help, but then I have to fork out more money in taxes, cutting into either my  income or company profits.  Mr. Obama–when YOU talk spending cuts, it’s  really just a decrease of the increase.  When WE cut, it is REAL,  subtracted from the bottom line.  You say that WE can afford it, but refuse  to entertain the notion of government actually doing with less like you expect  us to do.  You want more money into government and less money in the  private sector in order to accomplish your “transformation”.  We get that,  so why can’t you just level with us what you’re really doing?

 
 
 
 
celtsfan934

 
from celtsfan9345pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

@WPC  Guy FYI… if the figures you are giving are correct, you would  not be required to pay the “fair share” as mathmatically your business would not  generate over 250K. It’s ok though, democrats act just as ignorant and closed  minded as republicans on the democratic website.

 
 
 
 
WPC Guy

 
from WPC Guy5pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

@celtsfan934 Your assumptions expose you.   Nothing I divulged indicates what my business generates nor what our household  income is.  I simply stated what taxes on MY income from MY business are.  OK, more like low 40’s%.  Better?  My business generates well over  $250K annually, and my wife’s income is comparable to mine, as she has a career  AND works part-time for our business.  We are fed taxed on INCOME, not  gross billings.  My business is a non-inventory service business, and wages  to overhead ratio is much different than in an inventory/retail type  business.  Any suggestion that business owners are ignorant and  close-minded to economic realities are absurd.  Who do you suggest are the  qualified “experts”?  Again, we little guys carry the load and by virtue of  our successful application of proven strategies, we are demonized and called  ignorant by the highly educated yet unaccomplished left.  Finally, I want  to know what “fair share” is, and the logic behind the answer.  I submit  that to Obama and his followers, “fair” means whatever he/they think we  can/should live without.

 
 
 
 
 
WPC Guy

 
from WPC Guy5pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

Also, taxable income includes calculated profits in an S-corp, not just  wages.  It’s not uncommon for a business to show profit at tax time far  above actual cash on hand because not all expenses are 100% deductible.   It’s smoke and mirrors. So much that so many are clueless about…

 
 
 
 
 

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danielfaley

 
from danielfaley5pts

 
 

10 hours  ago

 

your math is as fuzy as your agenda. if my employer pays 7.35% of my ss and  medicare, then that means I don’t. Fox Noise once again misleading the public,  using FEAR as a tool to get your attention and just out right LIE! Obama won, if  you don’t like it, just leave this country and go spew your hate somewhere  else!

 
 
 
 

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elpiel

 
from elpiel5pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

@danielfaley Never mind that the 7.35% that the  employer pays is a percentage of what the employee receives, and is money that  could otherwise be passed on to the employee, right? Do you really think that  the employer is cutting into his bottom line to benefit the worker? The answer  is a clear “no.” He decreases the employee’s wage to afford to pay that  tax.

 
 
 
 

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racebear11

 
from racebear115pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

@danielfaley Employers do pay that unless they  own the company.  Then they pay both sides.  What you call fear is  just the truth, which nobody else seems to want to discuss.  So many issues  hidden from public discourse until after the election.  Employers risk with  every new employee so why bother?  They won’t, especially  since employees will cost more now.  And you will see the businesses  move people to part time, reducing the tax going to the government and money  into the economy.  So who picks up the lost tax money?  All the rest  of us.  Plus, a business owner making sales of $250,000 (the basis for  the tax) a year probably has a profit margin (actual net income)  of 5-10%.  Do the math.  And when you sell something, you  rarely collect right away so you wait 30-90 days for your money.  Which  means borrowing to float your receiveables.  Which means at tax  time, you borrow money to pay your taxes even if you do not pay  yourself.   Lose lose.  

 
 
 
 
WPC Guy

 
from WPC Guy5pts

 
 

6 hours  ago

 

@racebear11 Mostly correct, Racebear, but tax is on  INCOME, not sales.  Some states do have a gross receipts tax, however,  which just get passed on to the consumer with higher prices.  Profit margin  as you state is spot-on, best case scenario for most businesses.  To avoid  borrowing, I try to keep at least one month’s revenues in the bank to offset  slow payers.  Sometimes it’s very difficult to pull off.  Yet, at  years’ end, I still spend all of my years’ personal savings to pay my  taxes.

 
 
 
 
 
Jon Donson

 
from Jon Donson5pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

@danielfaley You seem to be the one with hate issues.  Take a chill  pill and please leave the hate spewing out of it.  I don’t like that obama  is in office again, but I remember back when Johnson (a democrat) was in office  and all the liberals were going to Canada to avoid the draft.  Wasn’t the  republicans that left and then slithered back…………….

 
 
 
 
 

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WPC Guy

 
from WPC Guy5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@danielfaley Here’s how it works, Daniel.  If you  make $1000 in wages, you pay $56.50, withheld from your check.  You never  even see the money. In addition, your employer pays another $76.50 out of the  company’s till.  I know–I write the checks every month, quarter, and year  TO the gov’t.  If I don’t HAVE the money, I get shut down.  Nothing  fuzzy about it.  Multiply those figures out by actual wage dollars and  number of employees and the numbers are breathtaking.  Better yet, go start  a business of your own and see who really builds it and how easy it is to make  payroll, pay taxes AND grow and compete.  A $5 pound of beef cost you about  $5.50 in earned wages.  The same purchase costs me about $9-$10 in earned  wages.   I don’t like that Obama won, but if you think America will win  while he’s in office you’ve got another thing coming.  If those of us who  actually carry the load of taxation “leave this country” as you say, then there  will be no one left to put milk in the bottle on which you feed.  Then  what?  Are you prepared for what you libs have prescribed for us all? I bet  not…at least we are smart enough and prepared enough to survive the  consequences of your policies, while you will be rioting in the  streets.

 
 
 
 
billh

 
from billh5pts

 
 

6 hours  ago

 

@WPC  Guy @danielfaley The  stock market dropped, what, 800 points last week?  How’s that for a ringing  endorsement for four more years?  We’re looking at a recession here.   We’ll go through the same thing as Japan’s “lost decade” just before we  become the “new Greece.”Good times….

 
 
 
 
 

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iPood

 
from iPood5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@danielfaley When an employer hires you your  share and his share of payroll taxes are taken into account in your total  employee costs. The employer is  willing to spend $X on you. and isn’t as  concerned as to how that pie is divided. Instead of you getting more in your net  pay, it goes to the  government. Does that make sense to you now?

 
 
 
 
 

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osu74

 
from osu745pts

 
 

10 hours  ago

 

I have never figured out why each state doesn’t pay and provide benefits to  senators and congressmen.  They work for the state.  Then we could  have some class envy when one state pays better than another.

 
 
 
 
 
Terry Conklin

 
from Terry Conklin5pts

 
 

10 hours  ago

 

And you forget the Obama Care “tax” . Presuming you do as mandated and pay an  insurance company to manage your health purchases, They rake another 20% off  what you spend for health care which has risen to about $8,000 per person  yearly. And how about  what we have voluntarily given to banks. Money to  hold our money cost a fee each month. Credit card services cost about 3% and are  added to prices. I know insurance companies and banks aren’t the government but  they essentially own the government.

 
 
 
 
Lance0Lot41

 
from Lance0Lot415pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

@Terry  Conklin Everything you purchase gets taxed at least two or three  times before you even pay the taxes on it, especially in places like here in MA  where taxes is totally out of control and our dopey voters elected a senator  that just can’t wait to dole out blank checks toward absurd special interests.   Can’t say that I’m looking forward to the future of my home  state.

 
 
 
 
 
crackerjack

 
from crackerjack5pts

 
 

11 hours  ago

 

Paying taxes seems more and more like giving money to con artists. For  instance, where I live I pay $3500 dollars a year property tax on my house. That  provides me with plowing the road and garbage pick up. I have no children in  school and fire and police prtection is not provided. We have the state police  and a volunteer fire department so we pay a separate fire tax. We all get even  less bang for our buck with state and federal taxes because these lawmakers  think of us as a huge bank where they can withdraw money and never pay it back.  Government is just too big and excretes garbage all througout the land. We  taxpayers are nothing more than a giant ATA machine.

 
 
 
 
odwalla

 
from odwalla5pts

 
 

10 hours  ago

 

@crackerjack You are lucky that you only pay $3500 in  property tax. Where I live, I am paying $10,500 in property tax and NOT  including parcel taxes and miscellaneous fees add on by the county and city. My  total bill just over $11,500/year.

 
 
 
 

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T Logan

 
from T Logan5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@crackerjack I hear ya!  That’s exactly  right.  They better prepare for a whole lot of tax cheaters and who can  blame anybody?  I’m surely NOT working for these jerks to get my  money.  They can take a flying leap off the fiscal cliff!

 
 
 
 
 

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buzby1234

 
from buzby12345pts

 
 

11 hours  ago

 

Just a Brief note:  As per the president on Fox News yesterday, it is no  longer the 1% v. 99%; it has now morphed into the 2% v. 98%!  Look for this  ratio to become more balanced as each side moves closer to 50% v. 50%.   There is no way the budget can be balanced with higher taxes on just 2% of the  wealthy or just on the upper class, look for the middle class to pick up a  larger and larger share in this stupid “Russian Roulette” style tax and spend  game.  I think America has finally reached the tipping point as far as  stupidity is concerned, stupidity being not the inability to recognize facts,  but the UNWILLINGNESS to recognize facts.  Did anyone see Watters’ World on  O’Reilly the other night when he was asking people about the Fiscal Cliff?   Several people said they didn’t know where the cliff was and some thought it was  a topographical overlook into the Grand Canyon!  Sheesh, do we deserve this  guy or what?

 
 
 
 
Lance0Lot41

 
from Lance0Lot415pts

 
 

9 hours  ago

 

@buzby1234 or look to half of this nation’s  citizens who pay no taxes at all and have never done so, this behavior gets  handed down from generation to generation and the lowest income Americans are  also the most prolific breeders.

 
 
 
 
ohiodale

 
from ohiodale5pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

I do not think we should look to the poor to pay more taxes but we could  certainly give them less handouts and tax credits.

 
 
 
 
 
Jennifer Mayou Rodriguez

 
from Jennifer Mayou Rodriguez5pts

 
 

12 hours  ago

 

It is funny how people are still taking into account the tax credits in  theses comment when it is clear they will expire and your taxes will go up. Talk  about only taking in part of the information. We are all screwed no matter how  you look at it. And if you all have been paying attention it still will not be  enough, why, because of all the people who will be out of work by the end of  this year and the beginning of next. Businesses are closing do to all the  regulations, tax hikes on small businesses and the like. The Republican party  was campaigning to stop all of this but people voted because they wanted free  stuff, or they thought that because some politician said they are for gay  rights, and women, but has NO record of supporting really supporting, instead of  voting on what is going to keep this country above the rest. Talk about selfish  and uneducated on how this country works. People really need a history lesson in  this country.

 
 
 
 
Jeffrey Slipher

 
from Jeffrey Slipher5pts

 
 

7 hours  ago

 

@Jennifer Mayou  Rodriguez Don’t worry too much, they are about to get a lesson in  reality and the ones of us that know how to work will still be better off then  the ones that have never had to because they live off of others.  It won;t  be too long before those people start seeing their entitlements being cut to  save money and even though we will get to spend less of our hard earned  money.

 
 
 
 
 

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gogo

 
from gogo5pts

 
 

12 hours  ago

 

If the voters that kept Obama in office think that taxing the %1 will pay for  all the spending that this government is doing.  Well, I’d be censored if I  wrote what I really think of you.  Obama lied to you all.  Taxes/Costs  are going to go up on everyone and that includes the lowest income earners.   Please take some time and learn just a little about economics.   Businesses pass their overhead onto their customers.  They have to  make a profit to stay in business.  Profits are what they use to expand and  hire more employees.  The lower the profits, the fewer people that will  have jobs.  Raise taxes, lay off employees to make up the difference.   Businesses will just scale back and raise costs to maintain a small profit  margin and weather the storm.  Some won’t make it.  Others will.   That’s capitalism! 

 
 
 
 
jcsnow

 
from jcsnow5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@gogo  When the Bush-era tax cuts are rolled back, the tax bracket hit the hardest is  the LOWEST one, which goes up from 10% to 15%.  The top bracket only goes  up from 35% to 38.5% (I think).  Bush was never giving the “rich” a huge  break, except perhaps on dividend/capital gains income.  However, many  retired folks RELY on dividends for their income stream, especially since  interest rates are at a useless 0%.  Families with children like mine will  get crushed because (1) the marriage penalty will be re-introduced, (2) the  child tax credit will be halved, (3) tax rates will increase, and (4) who knows  what else the fed govt will tax or deductions they will remove?  health  insurance premiums?  Employer-provided premiums?  401k  contributions?  mortgage interest?  charitable contributions?   The Obama administration sees dollar signs in their eyes…

 
 
 
 
 

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boomerpete

 
from boomerpete5pts

 
 

13 hours  ago

 

We don’t have a taxing problem. We have a spending problem.

And we voted for it.

 
 
 
 

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Brian Hulstrom

 
from Brian Hulstrom5pts

 
 

14 hours  ago

 

how will i be affected ? i have a wife and 5 kids, i make about $40,000 a  year.

 
 
 
 

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gogo

 
from gogo5pts

 
 

12 hours  ago

 

@Brian  Hulstrom Not only less net pay, but it will cost more to buy the  necessities you need.  Start saving and stop spending on items you can live  without. 

 
 
 
 

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Harley Alderson

 
from Harley Alderson5pts

 
 

8 hours  ago

 

@Brian  Hulstrom i only bring home $10,000 per year after taxes now  i  gross just under 17,000 and my rent is $900 per month, the electric is at about  $200 per month  food prices are sky rocketing and  i have to support  my mom and my sister. my mom only gets $600 per month from social security 

 
 
 
 
 
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Read more:  http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/willis-report/blog/2012/11/15/half-your-paycheck-government-2013#ixzz2CS1MS6nQ

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